so where did god exist before he created the heavens?
Nicolaou:
If COJ posted his religious beliefs here I suppose they would be debated the same as any other persons.
Yes, that's what Cofty said and I thought it balanced and fair.
What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying that because someone has faith that atheists will automatically dismiss anything they have to say.
No, I was wondering if Jonsson would be given a pass.
It's the opinion of believers that I'm actively seeking here.
Okay.
so where did god exist before he created the heavens?
Good, no great, reply!
Thanks.
so where did god exist before he created the heavens?
Nicolaou: Particularly in Jonsson's case, he backed up every claim he made. If he chooses to believe in God or Zeus it doesn't take away from his work.
Perhaps Jonsson's belief in God and the Bible would not be ridiculed here if he posted? Just wondering.
Frank
so where did god exist before he created the heavens?
DJS,
Thanks for your well written and intelligent reply.
Frank
so where did god exist before he created the heavens?
DJS: We've ALL done the bible research you are talking about. I immersed myself in that when I was a Dub.
My wife, an exJW and an atheist, loved Raymond Franz, James Penton and Carl Olof Jonsson authors well respected by exJWs. She purchased all their books.Yet these men remained Christians who had also researched the Bible.
I asked her once, if those men were so dumb as to be duped by a false god and the Bible how is it she can ignore that gross "stupidity" and take them at their word in everything else? She looked at me and walked away.
I'm taking this thread off topic. I apologize for that. No more "dumb" Bible stuff from me.
so where did god exist before he created the heavens?
. . . but no, of course not.
Yes, that's right I will not. There are two requirements for providing a sufficient answer on this forum. 1, the time and ability to give an answer that supplies the whole, the complete Biblical understanding along with the scientific theories/parallels which support the Biblical understanding. Such a discussion is found in scholarly literature not forums. 2, the desire to provide an answer for purely entertainment purposes.
Chicken and egg discussions are not meant to be informative only entertaining.
so where did god exist before he created the heavens?
There is no meaningful answer to this question not least because it assumes the existence of God. So, in the absence of evidence or even a reasonable hypothesis grounded in reason and logic, fantastical and absurd constructions fill the void.
No that is not the case. All that has been shown on this thread is that what those who chose to address the topic contributed (on this small exJW forum) was not, in your opinion, close to being sufficient. That though is not evidence there is no answer that would be sufficient for you. Looking for answers to big fish questions in a small fishbowl ensures no satisfactory answer will be found.
In truth, Biblical questions seem to be considered entertainment here not adult discussions. I would recommend all those who believe in God and the Bible to seek other venues for their Bible discussions.
Frank
during the watchtower today while there was so much pontificating on the first century christian movement, i was wondering what would happen i asked your run of the mill r&f how paul and others would have been pronouncing the divine name?....
yes god's name, something witnesses claim was so critical.
but the absolute fact of the matter is that no christian was saying the name jehovah at all, period.
While there is evidence that the Septuagint (a Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures often quoted in the Greek Scriptures) did contain the Tetragrammaton it is also true the NT manuscripts we have available today do NOT contain YHWH except for Hallelujah in Revelation and Joshua/Jesus which means Jah/Yah Saves.
so, the anti-gmo movement scored another victory today.
chipotle has opted to only use non-gmo food items.. hooray for them.
i'm pretty neutral on the subject, mostly because, other than questionable treatment of farmers, i have seen no evidence to avoid gmo's for health reasons.. basically, my neutrality boils down to the stance that i'll buy non-gmo, so long as the price is reasonable.
My generation experienced the mistake of the older generation thinking radiation therapy was the best thing since the wheel. Radiating acne on teens' necks and faces was a new great idea until it was found to be damaging their thyroid. X-rays were routinely used to track the growth of fetuses in their mother's abdomen. All of this was well intentioned but they went too fast, they ran before they had learned to walk.
GMOs in my opinion have the potential to do permanent harm to the environment. GMO corn has already entered the wild. It is too early, way to early, to make the claim that GMO crops will not harm the wild not to mention genetically altered animal life entering the wild. They are running before they can walk without being careful for the next generation.
I'm not against GMOs I'm against the carelessness that so often runs alongside greed and notoriety, the race to be the first. Let's wait 100 years and then we'll know what the effect of all this real life experimentation will be.
Frank
according to these authentic holy verses, you too can share in the assured joy of sweet raspberries from the sky:.
"i tell you truthfully, there were raspberries in an abundance that fell from the sky, bringing great happiness to all those on earth".
from the book of stuckinarut2 4:7. but how can you believe this authoritative verse?.
"I tell you truthfully, there were raspberries in an abundance that fell from the sky, bringing great happiness to all those on earth". From the book of stuckinarut2 4:7
But the whole book can't be taken as literal words of fact.
I agree.
Some will think stuckinarut2 4:7 was written by a fool or lunatic or a monstrous religious liar. Others will take it literal and will wait for more raspberries to fall and bring them great happiness. Still others, recognizing that raspberries do not fall from the sky, will attempt to examine what the writer of stuckinarut2 4:7 might have meant.
We are free to chose any of those paths.
